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	<title>Comments on: The 4,096 &#8220;bug&#8221;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.metaverseink.com/blog/opensim/the-4096-bug/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.metaverseink.com/blog/opensim/the-4096-bug/</link>
	<description>Virtual Worlds and Beyond</description>
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		<title>By: Jeroen van Veen</title>
		<link>http://www.metaverseink.com/blog/opensim/the-4096-bug/#comment-288</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeroen van Veen]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jun 2011 12:04:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metaverseink.com/blog/?p=222#comment-288</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think the argument of the amount of regions enabled by a 4kx4k grid is only partially valid. What if one wants to use real-world coordinates for regions? I mean placing a full-sized region map-tile on top of openstreetmap at the point where one in-world meter is about one pixel on the map is approximately at zoomlevel 17. This requires a 2^17 sized grid-axis for region coordinates, in order to place regions at any location on the openstreetmap map. I&#039;m quite sure this is useful for gis-like applications, so I&#039;ll dig into the viewer code and ask some viewer devs for help. Maybe it&#039;s not impossible to solve. This seems indeed like a viewer issue.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the argument of the amount of regions enabled by a 4kx4k grid is only partially valid. What if one wants to use real-world coordinates for regions? I mean placing a full-sized region map-tile on top of openstreetmap at the point where one in-world meter is about one pixel on the map is approximately at zoomlevel 17. This requires a 2^17 sized grid-axis for region coordinates, in order to place regions at any location on the openstreetmap map. I&#8217;m quite sure this is useful for gis-like applications, so I&#8217;ll dig into the viewer code and ask some viewer devs for help. Maybe it&#8217;s not impossible to solve. This seems indeed like a viewer issue.</p>
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		<title>By: Ener Hax</title>
		<link>http://www.metaverseink.com/blog/opensim/the-4096-bug/#comment-287</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ener Hax]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jun 2011 22:13:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metaverseink.com/blog/?p=222#comment-287</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[nicely put and thank you for the thorough explanation (while the online Ener Hax is very much a naive and carefree 14 year old inner child, her agent has a minor in mathematics)  =)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nicely put and thank you for the thorough explanation (while the online Ener Hax is very much a naive and carefree 14 year old inner child, her agent has a minor in mathematics)  =)</p>
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		<title>By: Maria Korolov</title>
		<link>http://www.metaverseink.com/blog/opensim/the-4096-bug/#comment-286</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Maria Korolov]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jun 2011 20:54:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metaverseink.com/blog/?p=222#comment-286</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ai --

It&#039;s always a good idea not to put your regions on round-numbered locations. There&#039;s a good chance that some other grid already has regions there, and you won&#039;t be able to teleport directly to them if you want to -- you can&#039;t jump from one region to another if they have the same coordinates.

(Is that another SL-related viewer issue?)

But I&#039;ve never heard of teleporting to one region and ending up at the same coordinates on another grid. I *have* heard of maps not being updated immediately after you teleport from one grid to another, so you&#039;re still seeing the old regions on the map for a little while.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ai &#8212;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s always a good idea not to put your regions on round-numbered locations. There&#8217;s a good chance that some other grid already has regions there, and you won&#8217;t be able to teleport directly to them if you want to &#8212; you can&#8217;t jump from one region to another if they have the same coordinates.</p>
<p>(Is that another SL-related viewer issue?)</p>
<p>But I&#8217;ve never heard of teleporting to one region and ending up at the same coordinates on another grid. I *have* heard of maps not being updated immediately after you teleport from one grid to another, so you&#8217;re still seeing the old regions on the map for a little while.</p>
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		<title>By: Ai Austin</title>
		<link>http://www.metaverseink.com/blog/opensim/the-4096-bug/#comment-285</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ai Austin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jun 2011 19:39:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metaverseink.com/blog/?p=222#comment-285</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[We also seem to get confusion when trying to teleport back to a region on another grid that happens to be placed at the same xloc,yloc as an existing region on OSGrid. For example, Vue-9000 on Openvur grid was originally at 9000,9000 on that grid, but when teleporting back from OSGrid, e.g. Wright Plaza, I ended up in the OSGrid region that happened to be at 9000,9000 and got a confused map that mixed Openvue and OSGrid regions. Maybe this was a 0.6.9 thing? At some sage if you think it&#039;s worth it I&#039;ll reset Vue-9000 again to be at 9000,900 and try again?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We also seem to get confusion when trying to teleport back to a region on another grid that happens to be placed at the same xloc,yloc as an existing region on OSGrid. For example, Vue-9000 on Openvur grid was originally at 9000,9000 on that grid, but when teleporting back from OSGrid, e.g. Wright Plaza, I ended up in the OSGrid region that happened to be at 9000,9000 and got a confused map that mixed Openvue and OSGrid regions. Maybe this was a 0.6.9 thing? At some sage if you think it&#8217;s worth it I&#8217;ll reset Vue-9000 again to be at 9000,900 and try again?</p>
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		<title>By: Maria Korolov</title>
		<link>http://www.metaverseink.com/blog/opensim/the-4096-bug/#comment-284</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Maria Korolov]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jun 2011 16:07:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metaverseink.com/blog/?p=222#comment-284</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks so much for the explanation! Do you know if this issue is being addressed in the non-SL viewers such as by the realXtend folks or Tipodean? 

Peter -- Grid popularity can be measured by the number in inbound hypergates that point to your grid. We&#039;re starting to see some of these one-to-one links appearing (I&#039;m putting a few on my not-yet-officially-launched Hyperica grid), and Pathfinder has some up, as well. However, there aren&#039;t nearly enough of these gates yet for any realistic measurement of popularity. The most common gates are menu-driven gates that give access to a large collection of destinations -- The Hypergates is the most common example of these. You can&#039;t (yet) pick and choose which destinations appear in The Hypergates hypergate on your region. I&#039;m sure that functionality is coming, however, as the number of hypergrid destinations is exploding.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks so much for the explanation! Do you know if this issue is being addressed in the non-SL viewers such as by the realXtend folks or Tipodean? </p>
<p>Peter &#8212; Grid popularity can be measured by the number in inbound hypergates that point to your grid. We&#8217;re starting to see some of these one-to-one links appearing (I&#8217;m putting a few on my not-yet-officially-launched Hyperica grid), and Pathfinder has some up, as well. However, there aren&#8217;t nearly enough of these gates yet for any realistic measurement of popularity. The most common gates are menu-driven gates that give access to a large collection of destinations &#8212; The Hypergates is the most common example of these. You can&#8217;t (yet) pick and choose which destinations appear in The Hypergates hypergate on your region. I&#8217;m sure that functionality is coming, however, as the number of hypergrid destinations is exploding.</p>
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		<title>By: BlueWall</title>
		<link>http://www.metaverseink.com/blog/opensim/the-4096-bug/#comment-283</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[BlueWall]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jun 2011 14:35:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metaverseink.com/blog/?p=222#comment-283</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[We saw this in OSgrid a good while before the OGP days.  I put some regions at about 30000, 30000 and jumped back to my regions which were located just south of Wright Plaza. This was the first time I saw it. We assumed that we were doing something wrong (or missing something) to cause the phenomenon. And that it was an OpenSim issue. Afterward we were careful to put our regions closer to the center of the grid.

Later, when the OGP project was started by Linden Lab, we were given some ranges of coordinates to place our regions. They happened to be in meters, not region units. But, we didn&#039;t know this. So, as we entered the coordinates as-is our regions were very far apart. And some who jumped to the Linden regions on Agni saw this bug on the LL regions.

With the onset of Hypergrid, I added a gateway region between my OSgrid regions and my original OGP regions that were within jumping distance of the Agni regions. Then, it was possible to login to Agni and travel via the gateways to OSgrid, then on  to Wright Plaza. Whump Linden was the first person to make the OGP/Hypergrid trip through the gateway from Agni to OSgrid.

Good point about the map. I don&#039;t believe I have ever been in a block of regions large enough to fill the map. Most of us have just thought it was something that needed addressing on the OpenSim side.

Thanks for the info!
BlueWall]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We saw this in OSgrid a good while before the OGP days.  I put some regions at about 30000, 30000 and jumped back to my regions which were located just south of Wright Plaza. This was the first time I saw it. We assumed that we were doing something wrong (or missing something) to cause the phenomenon. And that it was an OpenSim issue. Afterward we were careful to put our regions closer to the center of the grid.</p>
<p>Later, when the OGP project was started by Linden Lab, we were given some ranges of coordinates to place our regions. They happened to be in meters, not region units. But, we didn&#8217;t know this. So, as we entered the coordinates as-is our regions were very far apart. And some who jumped to the Linden regions on Agni saw this bug on the LL regions.</p>
<p>With the onset of Hypergrid, I added a gateway region between my OSgrid regions and my original OGP regions that were within jumping distance of the Agni regions. Then, it was possible to login to Agni and travel via the gateways to OSgrid, then on  to Wright Plaza. Whump Linden was the first person to make the OGP/Hypergrid trip through the gateway from Agni to OSgrid.</p>
<p>Good point about the map. I don&#8217;t believe I have ever been in a block of regions large enough to fill the map. Most of us have just thought it was something that needed addressing on the OpenSim side.</p>
<p>Thanks for the info!<br />
BlueWall</p>
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		<title>By: Peter host</title>
		<link>http://www.metaverseink.com/blog/opensim/the-4096-bug/#comment-282</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter host]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jun 2011 13:35:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metaverseink.com/blog/?p=222#comment-282</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi.

Thx for clarifying this point. And also hoping Osgrid will become more HG friendly

I personally can&#039;t agree more about the limitations of grids in terms of a network of virtual worlds and your HG protocol got me convinced as soon as I begun using Opensim, 2 years ago. The one thing I haven&#039;t yet found an analogy for  ( maybe because it&#039;s totally irrelevant) is the equivalent of &quot;world popularity/influence&quot; (or in google terminology, pagerank) in virtual-world space. Avatar influence could be achieved by measuring ocurences of a creator name&#039;s in virtual props, but what is a &quot;one directional hard link&quot; between two grids ?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi.</p>
<p>Thx for clarifying this point. And also hoping Osgrid will become more HG friendly</p>
<p>I personally can&#8217;t agree more about the limitations of grids in terms of a network of virtual worlds and your HG protocol got me convinced as soon as I begun using Opensim, 2 years ago. The one thing I haven&#8217;t yet found an analogy for  ( maybe because it&#8217;s totally irrelevant) is the equivalent of &#8220;world popularity/influence&#8221; (or in google terminology, pagerank) in virtual-world space. Avatar influence could be achieved by measuring ocurences of a creator name&#8217;s in virtual props, but what is a &#8220;one directional hard link&#8221; between two grids ?</p>
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		<title>By: Nebadon Izumi</title>
		<link>http://www.metaverseink.com/blog/opensim/the-4096-bug/#comment-281</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nebadon Izumi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jun 2011 04:58:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metaverseink.com/blog/?p=222#comment-281</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[another problem that arises is there are already a lot of regions down in this zone, which would make an absolute shift completely impossible as there would be a lot of overlap.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>another problem that arises is there are already a lot of regions down in this zone, which would make an absolute shift completely impossible as there would be a lot of overlap.</p>
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		<title>By: Nebadon Izumi</title>
		<link>http://www.metaverseink.com/blog/opensim/the-4096-bug/#comment-280</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nebadon Izumi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jun 2011 04:56:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://metaverseink.com/blog/?p=222#comment-280</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[heh I am not sure you understand how much of a disaster trying to coordinate this would be for osgrid, I honestly just do not see it happening. We currently have aprox. 6000 regions and literally 100&#039;s of region owners/operators, trying to coordinate everyone so they can keep their same exact spot without loosing it would be nearly impossible and frankly not worth the stress it would be on our volunteer staff trying to resolve disputes and mediate the arguments that would arise in such an undertaking.  Is there really nothing we can do on the simulator side to overcome this problem? Some kind of virtual coordinates, IE 4097 actually = 0 or something like this on the simulator, it just seems crazy that there is nothing we could do on the simulator side to overcome this problem.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>heh I am not sure you understand how much of a disaster trying to coordinate this would be for osgrid, I honestly just do not see it happening. We currently have aprox. 6000 regions and literally 100&#8217;s of region owners/operators, trying to coordinate everyone so they can keep their same exact spot without loosing it would be nearly impossible and frankly not worth the stress it would be on our volunteer staff trying to resolve disputes and mediate the arguments that would arise in such an undertaking.  Is there really nothing we can do on the simulator side to overcome this problem? Some kind of virtual coordinates, IE 4097 actually = 0 or something like this on the simulator, it just seems crazy that there is nothing we could do on the simulator side to overcome this problem.</p>
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